The In’s and Out’s of Microneedling: the future of regeneration is surprisingly gentle

Uran Berisha  0:07 

Hi, today it is my pleasure to share this episode with Amber Guerin. She is the expert from Crown Aesthetics, which is the manufacturer of SkinPen Precision Microneedling Technology. I met her just before New Year right around Christmas time.

Amber Guerin  0:23 

Yeah, just before Christmas.

Uran Berisha  0:27 

She was so good at teaching us about SkinPen microneedling so I said to her, “Hey, I want you at my show and my podcast so we can actually share your knowledge with everybody.” So, tell me a little bit about you, Amber.

Amber Guerin  0:42 

Oh, my gosh, where do I start?  I’ve been in this industry for longer than I care to admit. But it’ll be 22 years in the esthetics industry this year. So, I am almost retired. Getting started, I went to business school. And then, I wanted to be an aesthetician; I always wanted to do aesthetics. And, you know, it’s so interesting, because the aesthetics industry is so different than when I went to school. But, I love the things that we can do now, because they make such a marked improvement in skin. And so I think that’s why you know, we really connected about SkinPen because we have similar ideologies in terms of not creating too much inflammation and the importance of growth factors and things like that. So I think, you know, as part of my journey in skincare, I’ve really been focusing on products that I believe do not create inflammation. I think it’s really important to control inflammation in the skin and we’re seeing a shift in the industry. You’re seeing a shift in the way that people are treating their skin. It used to be very North American, we would Ajax our face if they said it would make us younger and did all these harsh, crazy things. And now we’ve got so many tools at our disposal that, you know, do these things gently, and we see these incredible results from them. So I’m excited to share some information about micro needling benefits with you today.

Uran Berisha  2:16 

Yeah, that’s awesome. I know, it’s gonna be an amazing conversation between us here, just kind of brainstorming. And it’s interesting when you think actually how many approaches and techniques have improved. What we thought before, you know, that you have to actually cut, you have to pull, and you have to go deep, and you have to use this acid or that knife, where nowadays you can get amazing results just with completely non-invasive or minimally invasive procedures. So, you know, as a business owner, and with Unpain Clinic, we have grown everything up to this point, based on word-of-mouth. And to us and for me personally, if I don’t use something on myself, I don’t want to offer it for anyone else. And therefore, we are extremely careful what we bring in. So, when it came to microneedling, we heard you know, as a concept, it’s really good because it’s almost like micro-injuring the skin. It’s causing biological effects on the skin to get the healing going. Yeah. And then we have another clinic that we work closely with and she is amazing – always sharing tips and tricks of the trade. Her name is Alana at Esteem Treatments and she’s from Victoria; she’s an amazing aesthetician. And we asked her like, “Okay, what is the best micro needling device? What is the best technology on the market?” And she said, “SkinPen. Don’t bother with anything else.” So that’s how we connected and it’s been true. So can you just tell me for people that have no clue what we are talking about, what is microneedling?  How does microneedling work?

Amber Guerin  4:04 

Basically, what we’re doing is we’re, not to scare anyone (it’s very pain-free), putting millions of micro-wounds into the skin in an effort to make your skin heal itself, as you said, and produce collagen. So essentially, the SkinPen uses a cartridge and it has needles that go into your skin. 1600 channels a second are produced. And then what ends up happening is your skin, over the course of a period of time, will heal and some of what happens in the healing is for example, growth factor is produced. And growth factor is one of the most amazing things the body does for us for healing. But on the other side of it, it’s great for hyperpigmentation and many other things you may be dealing with, we can treat with microneedling through putting those needles into the skin healing cascade. So a lot of people think micro needling is just putting holes into the face to produce collagen. But it’s so much more than that. Yeah. And a lot of it comes down to growth factor, which I know you guys talk about quite a bit in your other channel. And if you can create more growth factor with collagen production, you’re in a very good healing place. But you don’t have to be inflamed for a long period of time. Because inflammation, you know, left unchecked for a very long period of time can actually creates so many of the things that we’re trying to treat. And so you mentioned even with peeling, you know, and I mentioned, you know, back in the day, if we could get Ajax on our face to rip it off and start, with the completely incorrect understanding that if you rip it all off, your skin is going to make new skin, but there’s an effect to that. Inflammation is left unchecked for a long period of time. So, you know, I think the beauty of SkinPen, and we’ll talk more about the specifics, but we do create a little bit of inflammation, but the goal is microneedle treatment, not trauma. We put those channels in, and we don’t go deeper than we need to.

Uran Berisha  6:17 

By channels, you mean needles?

Amber Guerin  6:21 

Yeah, free channels. Channels, they’re a little things. Saying channels is a little less scary than saying wounds. So we stay away from the word wounds, but they are essentially little wounds. And they’re very, very small. They’re microscopic, it’s not like you can see every hole on your face. But again, the idea is, we do need to create a little bit of injury in the skin. But a lot of what we’ve seen happen over you know, at least in my time in aesthetics, it used to be the idea that you need to hurt hurt hurt the face in order to get a result. And we are moving away from that. And I’m sure your patients.  I know for myself, I don’t like an obscene amount of downtime, even though we’re wearing masks. Now I still don’t want to look awful for seven days. And so this is where you know, we get really great results from micro needling with no downtime, less inflammation and also less risk. Because there are specific skin types, meaning Fitzpatrick types which has darker skin tones, that are always are concerned for hyperpigmentation created from treatments. And that’s just not going to happen from a microneedling treatment with us because we are not heating up the skin. We are treating it as gently as possible, but still getting amazing microneedling results.

Uran Berisha  7:40 

Yes. And that’s why I think that’s it. I have actually had the treatment last week. You know, I wanted to see exactly how it feels. Because, you know, don’t get me wrong. I hope nobody takes me wrong here. But when the first guy who discovered X ray, he was testing the X ray machine with his wife, so she was surrounded by wire, you know, I wanted to see like, what is her response? Because if it’s something you know, good, she tells me. If it’s something bad, I get in trouble. So if it has passed my test wife, it’s good. Yeah, and I saw on her, you know, the first day it was little bit red. The next day, it was almost like 80% gone. By the third day, back to normal. Even myself. I was very red right after the treatment. By the end of the day, it was like I would say 40-50% better. Next day, 80%. Third day, you cannot even tell if I had anything. I am a guy that freaks out by needles. So when I go to get the blood test done, I tell the nurses, “Hey, careful. Yeah, I’m telling you. You’re dealing here with a big strong man. If I faint from the needles, then don’t tell me that I didn’t warn you.” So anyway, Chanelle put the numbing cream as I was sitting. She cleanse the skin, put the numbing cream. I was there for about half an hour with numbing cream and then she started the procedure. And I would say 99% of the time, I did not feel it. The only 1%  was on my eyebrow because I have very thick eyebrows. I think the numbing cream really helps. Exactly. So I could feel it a little bit but that was it. Yeah. And honestly, I do feel a little bit more tightness, especially right after treatment. It was mind blowing. It’s like even like trying to smile or something. It felt like my skin has been so much tighter.

Amber Guerin  9:59 

It’s like a water balloon, we just popped you the first day. Yeah, you’re feeling very tight for sure.

Uran Berisha  10:08 

So tell me this because I know that SkinPen, like you say it is precision microneedling. And then I was just like surfing or browsing on Instagram one day and I saw somebody doing micro needling like manually by hand or something like that.

Amber Guerin  10:30 

yeah. Oh, yes.

Uran Berisha  10:34 

When did you guys start? Like, what is kind of the worst micro needling technique to the best?

Amber Guerin  10:41 

You know, I’ve never seen that. So that’s a new one for me. But there are different ways to micro needles. So a roller is one that we see a lot of. Certainly, homecare rollers are, you know, something that we see a lot of the clients have their hands on, not in clinics so much anymore. But you know, the thing about rollering is it’s not precise. Think about your own left hand and your right hand. If I go like this with my right hand and right hand is dominant, it’s going to be very different than if I go left hand. My left hand is a prod, it really is just here because it does very little. And so I’m not going to get an even result, it’s not consistent. Also, there is no way to tell how far you are in the skin with a roller. So the problem with that is that we actually have studied where, in the skin, you should go for certain issues. So when it comes to melasma, for example, we get better results for melasma. If we’re treating more shallow, we have to be precise with this to get the results. So if you’re using a roller, for example, there’s no precision there. You can’t determine ‘Am I point to five millimeters in the skin? Am I point five and my point seven, five, etc.’ There’s no way to determine that. So there’s no consistency there. There’s not even consistency from one side of the face to the other because again, your wrist action changes because of your anatomy. So I think the roller on that level is not ideal. Not to mention the hygiene side of things.

Uran Berisha  12:23 

That scared me. That was crazy.

Amber Guerin  12:26 

Yes. How are you cleaning this and the spread of bacteria is always an issue. But also, if you’ve ever seen a roller, how can you microscopically look at the needles on your home roller and know that they are not jagged and hooked? You just don’t know the needle quality anymore. And so, you know, imagine if you will, that you have just one little hook on your roller, and you’re going over your face like this every single time you move it you are pulling and ripping on the epidermis and you’re creating so much trauma, and so much inflammation. The other problem with those home rollers is you’re doing them frequently. Some of them, the protocols are to do it nightly, which is absolutely crazy. Your skin is always in an inflamed state. So that’s just some of the problems of the rollers. We also have devices out there that the needles are going in but they’re not coming all the way back out. That’s a huge issue, because especially, you’ve felt SkinPen. We moved across the skin like this and like this. If your needles are perfectly pointy, and free of hooks, free of jagged edges, and then on top of that, they’re not coming all the way out of the skin, you are going to end up with swollen, redness for days and days and days on end because you absolutely traumatized those tissues. I also see a lot of things on Instagram, as you mentioned, where I see people after a microneedling treatment and their face is completely bloody. Imagine doing microneedling under eyes when it is this much.  And I have to ask myself if they’ve had a PRP facial treatment because of the amount of blood and so a lot of the languaging out there about microneedling. In order to see a result, you have to bleed. I’ve gone 1.5 millimeters into the skin, treating acne scars on a client, which is the maximum depth you can go. You, in fact, are not even in the dermis at that point. You’re actually in the subcutaneous layer and the only reason we go that deep is for our acne clients because we have to get under and even then, I have not seen the amount of blood that I’ve seen with some devices. So I think that’s one of the most important things about SkinPen, we have validated studies on our needle quality. So they are perfectly pointy. They stay completely sharp for 80 minutes on scar tissue, not regular skin, scar tissue. We didn’t even bother trying on regular skin. We’re just like if it can go through scar tissue for 80 solid minutes, we’re good to go and a treatment that takes 30 minutes from head to décolleté. But that needle retraction difference is I think one of the most important things that is not talked about. If those needles are not coming all the way back out, and they are going 1600 channels a second, you are getting so much scratching and tearing on the skin. And that’s why you see swollen skin, even if they’re going to a one millimeter, which is a really acceptable level for a lot of things we treat. You’re seeing the swelling for days on end. And as you mentioned yourself, I would you know, hazard a guess that they probably did a one millimeter on you for collagen production in your cheek for your dimple, and you were probably fine after you said two days, there’s no redness. Very normal reaction. So you know, those are some of the things we see out there. And that’s the SkinPen’s advantages: better needle quality, superior needle quality as a matter of fact, needle retraction. We haven’t even gotten into the hygiene side of things yet. But you know, we can get there at some point. But that’s why we see the amazing results we see. And that’s why people like SkinPen treatments. They are not red and swollen for days on end. And you don’t have to be. This is not something that you have to experience in microneedling. In fact, it’s better not to.

Uran Berisha  16:21 

Yes, yes, yes, yeah. Wow, see, I love this because what I went through myself, and I was trying to understand and what I experienced is like, it all made sense. And even after numbing cream went away. I was honestly expecting a little bit “Oh, am I going to feel pain?” I just used the solution that the gels I was applying that and that was it.

Amber Guerin  16:49 

It’s like getting a minor sunburn. That’s what it feels like, you know, I mean, it’s a little, I think the worst part, especially being in Alberta, is the dryness that happens for the few days after which is completely normal. That feeling is not fun. But other than that it’s a really, really easy treatment, and everything that it treats. I mean, to get that level of, you know, no, no downtime, but get the results you get is something else. There’s not too many treatments that can claim both. These amazing results with this amount of time. Yes, yeah. And it’s your body. I think you guys love over there. It’s the fact that your own body is doing its thing, which it’s completely capable of, that makes it such a wonderful treatment and something that people are seeking right now. Right? People are seeking their own collagen production, they want to look like themselves, but better. And microneedling can do that for you without you know, giving you disfigurement in your face, which sometimes can have this well rounded treatment.

Uran Berisha  17:59 

Yeah, you know what, I’m just gonna be extremely honest here, as a man, if I look, you know, a woman that you can see, you know, a lot of artificial changes, it’s not very attractive. It’s just personal choice. Yeah, but if I see somebody that it’s, you know, it’s just looking, you know, stunning and it looks good. But it looks her, that is way more, you know, attracting and that’s why, even from what we do, you know, from healing perspective, with with shockwave and and anti-aging and men’s health and all that, we see, it’s like, you don’t want to trade problems. You don’t want to kill another cell to make the other one better. Because you’re gonna need those cells, you have them for this, for a freaking reason. Your body did not create them for no reason to go and burn a cell, or like freeze the cell or remove or cut. The only time that I’m pro surgeries, it’s actually when its life threatening injury, especially in 2022 there’s so much that can be done now. Completely non invasive that you just need to look for. And honestly, in long term because I still struggle to, to kind of put it out there that we want to do a proactive, you know, aging, like we want to do steps that it will prevent or optimize you. Yes, and not trying to go and physically, you know, change. So, yeah, yeah.

Amber Guerin  19:37 

That too, because I think what happens with microneedling a lot is, and this is partly our own fault as an industry. You know, we kind of set out there, you’re gonna do your series, depending on what your issue is, let’s just say lines and wrinkles. And then we’ll see you once a year or twice a year, as treatment, when the truth is you literally could make this your collagen producing treatments every month if you want to, or do it every other month. Because every time you do the treatment, the collagen is just going to keep producing and producing and producing. Every time you do one treatment, the collagen is going to produce for up to 300 days as well. So you’re not even seeing your end results. If we do a series of three on you, and you started in January, those results aren’t going to completely show up necessarily until the end of the year. So it’s just a way to maintain the healthy collagen in your skin. Always. It’s something that you can do as your collagen producing treatment forever if you want to.

Uran Berisha  20:42 

Yeah, you know, I was amazed when I saw your skin and I’m surrounded by lots of you know, beautiful ladies and woman’s, but when I saw her skin is like woah, she looks beautiful, amazing skin.

Amber Guerin  20:56 

Well it’s microneedling, I will tell you, it is the the magic formula. And I think I even told you my funny story about how I think I’m doing pretty good here and here. I’m okay. But you know where I’m starting to notice aging, you will always notice your own aging. And people always say I don’t notice that on you but I notice it in here. And I really did a lot of microneedling during the pandemic. Because I had a lot of time. And I had a lot of downtime, I didn’t have to worry about going out even if it was only a day long, you know, microneedling recovery time for me. But what I noticed after doing a lot of the treatments is this gel thing that I thought I had, I remember talking to one of my nurses in Calgary about and I was like, seriously consider a thread lift, I think I told you the story. Once I saw her and I was like, okay, we really got to talk about this thread lift. And she gave me a mirror and I was like, wait a minute, it’s gone. Took the collagen and elastin a little while to produce. And that’s why I say if you you know, you know your patient microneedling is a wonderful treatment. Sorry, my dogs here, I warned you. He’s getting impatient. Sorry about that. No problem. Yes, it’s a wonderful treatment as long as your patient like you are you said yourself, you see the tightening, there are things you see immediately. And normally what people notice is, you know, the first treatment, some people are like, it’s night and day and you’re like you use it, you’re like it is like, I don’t see it as much as you see it, but I’m glad you see it. But they come in for their third treatment. And that’s when you as the practitioner realize, oh, this is really changing. But then again, later down the road, if they’ve done just a series of three, you know, six months later, their friends are going to be saying to them, Oh, you look great. And they’re gonna be like, I don’t know what I’m doing differently, because they forgot that they did that series. So it’s just a wonderful treatment to continue the aging, preventing the aging process for you.

Uran Berisha  22:58 

Exactly. Honestly, and this is the thing that like all human cells need is they just need the right stimulation, the right nutrition, and then they do the work. Absolutely. Anyway, they are responsible for regeneration, degeneration, or everything. You don’t feed them properly with the right you know, skincare or like, whatever you do, then they’re going to degenerate. You do the right thing, they regenerate.

Amber Guerin  23:26 

You just touched on something too, that I really you already mentioned, just using the gel afterwards. And I think that’s something that is misunderstood. In the micro needling world, there are people putting crazy things on post treatments that have never been studied. And with the ideology, even with the home rollers, the ideology is if you put all these channels into your skin, your products will penetrate better. And it’s like your product should just penetrate anyways. If they’re good products, they’re going to penetrate on a toonie. You don’t need them to penetrate. You don’t need holes in your face to penetrate products. So you know, that’s something that we want to dispel. But also it’s really important what you put on your skin post treatment because you don’t want to create a reaction. First of all, you are red for a little while. How can you tell if someone’s reacting, which then sends your skin into a different kind of healing mode. Factor, wonderful cell signaling mode it’s in, I have an allergic reaction that I need to now flush out of the skin mode. It’s not the same kind of situations. So we are also very careful and have studied that product that you mentioned the lift gel, which basically just hydrates the skin for 24 hours, with the same ideology that you mentioned, your body is capable of healing, period. Let it do its thing for 24 hours, at least. And then you can go back to some of your products post treatment but let it do its thing because it’s going to do a very good job of healing it.

Uran Berisha  25:05 

Here’s the thing, it’s like it’s the mechanism of regeneration, it’s the same for every tissue in the body because you’re targeting the cell. Yes. And we do this with shockwave or with other treatments. And, and I like what I had after SkinPen, it was the healthy inflammation. It was the right amount of stimulation that my body went through redness, it triggers the inflammatory response, but then it was able to clear it. If you overstimulate, then you actually has caused an injury overstimulation that now the body instead of focus on healing and regeneration, it has to deal with over, overstimulation. Exactly, yes.

Amber Guerin  25:54 

That’s exactly what you’ve just nailed it. That’s it. I want to actually take that blurb. Yes. And I’m going to use it. Yeah, you know, it’s a healthy inflammatory response.

Uran Berisha  26:05 

Exactly. See, when it comes to regeneration, it’s almost like the the peak of mountain right, you can climb it from any direction, there are some ways that are shorter, some way that are harder, some are completely impossible. So therefore, like even with SkinPen, it really fit and clicked on what we’re already doing, is just gonna take our, our skin treatment to the next level. Like it’s just gonna, it’s just gonna, it’s just gonna like, we have created the combination now we call it like “Regenesis Face Treatment.” So we would actually do the shockwave first before we would do the SkinPen, because that just gets it travels beyond the skin. And that’s more when people wants to get more of filler, you know, effect by activating muscles. Because with shockwave we can reach, like pretty much from the skin to the bone, right? And then we go and do the micro needling after to target the skin, specifically, and those two are mind blowing. But then just like I cannot imagine. And everybody look at me now because I will look completely different next year. So what we have done, I ordered this machine is called VISIA, but it’s taking 16 weeks to come in.

Amber Guerin  27:28 

Oh yes, I love that you’re getting that it’s such a great machine. Yeah, you’re gonna love it.

Uran Berisha  27:33 

Like it’s a skin analyzer that uses AI technology, so now we want to put everybody there on like on the first session. So it should be here, hopefully, pretty soon. And then we create the baseline so that people we can actually show them on the skin inside, like what’s happening. Yeah. And then and show the difference.

Amber Guerin  27:54 

Well, I think too people forget where you started from. So it’s such a powerful tool to show them their progression. I’m excited for you guys to get that. Supply chain issues are so annoying.

Uran Berisha  28:07 

I know, I know. Hopefully one day soon. So yeah. The other thing that I was telling my clients, you know, the difference again, was SkinPen, and it was the number one reason for us to go forward. It was the hygiene aspect. Yes. Like, can you tell me a little bit more about that? Yes.

Amber Guerin  28:35 

Um, there’s so many things about it that, you know, we can talk about. Number one, it is the most approved by regulatory bodies on the planet. And so Health Canada is sticky, but the FDA when it comes to microneedling is even more finicky. So we were the first approved, cleared device there for a very long period of time and, and two, things about hygiene. And so, itself is completely ultrasonically sealed. Meaning nothing can ever get in it. And that’s really important because a lot of times how the hygiene aspect has worked is the cartridge, which is the needles, which is separate from the unit, you put on a new one every single time and it should prevent backflow. Meaning if somebody were to have you know, a bacteria get into the cartridge. The cartridge itself should prevent the bacteria from getting into your handpiece. However, even if that’s true, you still have the human hair side of things, which is you can cross contaminate with your gloves, with your hands. There’s so many ways to cross contaminate. And so having an ultrasonically sealed device will always prevent that from happening. There’s not a way that the handpiece could get bacteria in it and somehow get bacteria through the cartridge. So that’s number one. Number two is the cartridge does have a lock out feature. So one of the hygiene aspects that’s very important for people is to know that once we take that cartridge out, it can never be reused. Which is something that if we’ve seen happen where people tried to disinfect the needles and use them on another patient. I’m not saying we see that a lot here. It’s insane. Yeah. But you know, that was one of the things that the FDA said, you have to have a lock out feature. So this could never happen. So our cartridge has a lock out feature, which is very, very important. On top of that, we put a bio sheath over the handpiece itself, all of these things have clinically validated studies that we had to send in to all of those governing bodies. So from a hygiene aspect, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to ever transfer anything to a patient, because we have all of these safety things in place that had to be tested and validated and then sent in across the planet before that that device is even approved. So it is a very, very safe device from a hygiene standpoint.

Uran Berisha  31:10 

Yeah. You know, honestly, when I saw Chanelle, our aesthetician doing it, and even like during the training, it almost looked like you guys are doing a surgery. Like how many how many protective layers which is I love it. I love it. Like that’s, that’s the number one thing.

Amber Guerin  31:28 

And that’s how it should be. Yes, really. People can I mean, there’s so many crazy things that can happen. My dog is here to say hi, by the way.

Uran Berisha  31:39 

I was just thinking it was one of my kids here. Oh my god, they would like ruin this a long time ago.

Amber Guerin  31:46 

It’s like one of those videos you see where a news anchors on and their kids and mines a dog. Yes, but it is we treat it very much like a surgery. Yeah, because there is you know, there even though it’s not that invasive, there’s risks. Of course, there’s risk putting needles. And I we often we can draw blood, certainly there’s sometimes is blood that comes up. And it has nothing to do necessarily with the needle depth. As I’ve said, I’ve treated acne scars at 1.5 before. Yeah. And that patient simply didn’t bleed, it is the way it is. And I’ve treated someone at a 0.25, which is the most shallow depth on forehead, and have been really surprised by the amount of blood it produced, but it is what it is. It’s the human body these things happen. Yes. So blood can happen. And you need to be aware of it, you need to be conscientious of it. And that’s why SkinPen was you know, one of, is the most approved. Many, many, you know, governing bodies are actually maybe even more sticky than Health Canada. And so the fact that we’re in places like Australia, you know, not knowing they’re a very strict country should tell you everything you need to know about the safety of our device. Very, very safe.

Uran Berisha  33:02 

Wow, wow, so now, now tell me who is I know that everybody it’s, you know, it’s gonna work for everybody who has skin. It’s good. But is there any certain group age that works the best or when a person should start kind of with with this skincare regime?

Amber Guerin  33:27 

Everybody probably can benefit in some way. Certainly, if you are someone who is getting, you know, you’re dealing with acne scars, microneedling is an exceptional treatment for you. That was one of the first things we had approval for in terms of medical indication for ours. And we see incredible results for acne scars. The important thing about acne scars and melasma when you’re microneedling, there’s no heat. So there’s always this risk, when you already have you know, an acne scarred face can already have postinflammatory hyperpigmentation on it from the actual acne itself. Obviously, melasma and hyperpigmentation are already dealing with with too much melanin. And so there are treatments out there that can treat it, but there is still a risk of creating more of it. Peels can be like that. There’s always this little risk that you could be the person who hyperpigments and you’re in there for treatment from hyperpigmentation for example. So if you are someone who is prone to hyperpigmentation in any way, shape, or form, microneedling is for you because there’s no heat. There has never been an event where we’ve created hyperpigmentation with a microneedling treatment from SkinPen. It’s never happened. So I think that is really important things if you are we call it Fitzpatrick four, five, and six. That would be a darker skin tone person more likely to hyperpigment in other treatments like laser. You are 100% our market. You are a candidate no matter what. If you are concerned about aging, you want to be preventative start now. Yes, every time you do a treatment, you’re getting a collagen boost every single time. If you’re already further along in your journey, and you have lines and wrinkles, that collagen and elastin is really going to make a big difference in your skin. Especially if you’re doing three treatments, you’re going to see a big, big difference in, you know, the the depth of your wrinkles and the firmness of your skin. So anybody that needs collagen in any way, shape, or form is going to see a very good result from this treatment. If you have stretch marks, yes, you absolutely can do this treatment. If you have scars, you can do this treatment if you want to have a scar treatment. So, you know anywhere in your body, you can do a microneedling treatment, I have people that do it on their knees there. They don’t want to have both wrinkly knees, go ahead and get on your knees. Yeah, that’s a really important area to me, not to anybody in particular. And it’s really not a treatment that you have too many contraindications for either. You know, the basic contraindications for this or if you have trouble wound healing, there’s no reason you would ever want to even come for a treatment that’s going to create 2 million micro wounds or three hundred a year you’re not coming in. Diabetics can get this treatment, they definitely want to talk to their doctor. Because they are slow healers, yes. But they are not completely contraindicated from this treatment either. So you know, most people can do this treatment, no matter what your health status is, there are a few key ones that we cannot treat. So scleroderma is one for example, that’s just an absolute no. But other than that, everything that we normally worry about. We don’t have to worry about too much with SkinPen. And it does have a lot to do with the fact that there is no heat.

Uran Berisha  36:57 

Yes, yes. Yes. So no harm first.

Amber Guerin  37:01 

Absolutely. Yeah, we don’t mess up, you know, the treatment, not trauma is not something I made up. This is a SkinPen thing. We really focus on that with I mean, I work for a company, and we are the distributor for SkinPens. And that is one of their primary, you know, things that they bring up in training is we are treatment treating, not traumatizing the skin. Mm hmm.

Uran Berisha  37:22 

Well see my plan I want to do so what, what you taught us is like once a month, I think four to six weeks in between treatments.

Amber Guerin  37:31 

Four weeks is, we like four weeks, because you’re gonna get your results faster. Okay, it doesn’t mean that if you come every six weeks, you’re not gonna see the same results, you are. But if we’re treating, you know, acne scarring, for example, I don’t know a person who has really, you know, significant acne scarring, that wouldn’t want to get it under control as fast as possible. Yes, and we really do like to sell in series. Because we see such great results after three or in the case of really severe cases, generally say six treatments. It would depend and your girls would do the consultation with them for that. And that would be how we would do our series, no one is immune from doing this treatment once a month, if you want to. If you want to make this your one treatment that you do every single month, you can or you know, you have other treatments that you guys can incorporate in between as well. So you do a series of three treatments, let’s say it was to produce collagen for someone like yourself, yeah, a lot of lines, you don’t have a lot of wrinkles, you just want to be preventative, maybe plump up something that’s there already. And then you know, month four, you go back to a different kind of treatment for yourself, or you come in and your aesthetician looks at your skin and says you know, maybe we can do one more microneedling treatment. And then we’ll see how it goes maybe in a few months. And if we want to kick up the collagen. So basically, at the end of the day, there’s no limit, you will have to come out you, sorry, you can only come every four weeks. You can’t do it earlier than that. But if you want it to come in once a month, you absolutely can.

Uran Berisha  39:02 

Wow. See my what I’m thinking for myself, especially on that prevention mode or goal is I want to do the three sessions once a month, and then I want to do a session every three months. Perfect. So it’s that’s the company and here at the clinic now since we’re combining with like with a flashwave. Like people even with flashwave we’d like the combination with shockwave and SkinPen like even for shockwave it can go actually once a month. So that way it’s like everything gets boosted, literally from the skin to the bone at the same time. And you get that constant regeneration and optimization on the skin. So.

Amber Guerin  39:47 

Which sounds amazing and even doing what you said with the three months I think most people would kind of land there. There are certain people that are going to be like I’ll do a microneedling treatment every single month. No problem, that’s probably not for everybody. But, but certainly, you know, every three months after you’ve done your initial series is a really, really good place to start. The only exception I would say would be when you’ve got significant acne scarring, or someone who does have a lot of lines and wrinkles, yes, you may want to knock out two series once a month for six months to get the best results. Yeah, and then go on to that every three month.

Uran Berisha  40:26 

Retainer mode pretty much.

Amber Guerin  40:28 

Absolutely, yeah, just to maintenance it, if you will.

Uran Berisha  40:31 

Okay, so how about teenagers?  I’ve heard this is good for scars but we want to be able to offer the best acne treatment in Edmonton.  If this something we can add to that lineup?  Can teenagers that experience acne get this?

Amber Guerin  40:35 

It’s hard, you know, that’s up to their parents, the studies that we did on acne scarring, we’re on ages 22 and up. However, in seeing that, when they’re 18, if they’ve already gone through the scars and the acne has subsided, we do want to see them as fast as possible. Because at that point, their skin is ready to go for even more collagen production. Meaning, you know, we don’t want those scars to be able to last in the skin too long. If we can get those needles in right away, and get them plumped up as fast as possible. There’s also, you know, the the PIH side of things, which is post inflammatory hyperpigmentation, that we do want to get them in as fast as possible. Just well, because we get better results when we see them sooner for things like that. So I mean, absolutely. Anybody over 18 we’re “Yep, come on in” and before that, it depends on what’s going on with the skin but that would be upon consultation. And we also have a wonderful team at SkinPen that we can definitely communicate with, you know, have a conversation. “This is a 16 year old. This is where they’re at in their journey with acne, for example, what’s your thoughts?” And really get some some of our SkinPen experts who have seen some of these cases to give us some really good advice. We’re very fortunate that way that we still have a team that sometimes people send me random things “Hey, can I microneedle a scar on the palm?” And I’m like, “very big, I don’t know. Please reach out to our team and tell me what they say because I’ve never had something like that come up.” Right. So you know, absolutely. The other thing with acne is we don’t treat over completely inflamed acne in that moment. If they’re, you know, a really aggressive acne, they can’t be microneedled we need to get that acne that those cysts specifically under control. But if they’ve got a few breakouts still, we absolutely will work around that. Without question even you know, I have a breakout today I never break out I would absolutely be like SkinPen right around it. No. It’s not gonna spread it. We’re just not gonna go over it. Right. So it’s kind of on a case by case basis. But certainly we can make a difference. You know, as soon as somebody is an adult, we’re usually they have the go ahead.

Uran Berisha  42:51 

Wow, wow. This honestly, this is this is great. Like this is unbelievable. Just the, the brainstorming the education and how much is possible to be done. Without doing without hurting the skin, you know, too much without being too too invasive. Yeah, and another goal for us, it’s actually those post surgical scars. I think this is another one because we are known because scars actually affect human body in two ways. They affect you from the software component from the nervous system, the communication. Like let’s say a C section scar, it causes your ab muscles to be completely dysfunctional. Right, and then when they physically build up the keloid on the skin, that’s more the aesthetic part. So we can use actually we use shockwave for that then it can help but now I want to combine it with SkinPen to go and make that scar as flat as possible.

Amber Guerin  43:51 

And I think that is you know, sometimes scars are they’re traumatizing for people. Body scars included but sometimes we have people that have scars right on their face.

Uran Berisha  44:02 

Exactly. From cuts and stuff and yeah.

Amber Guerin  44:05 

Dog bites. I mean there’s so many different things. So you know the acne scarring we talk about a lot, and the differences that something like this can do or make for somebody. Same thing with scars body and face a huge differences are made. Some people are, you know, even they have a chickenpox scar. And that’s traumatizing for them. So yeah, the amount of ways that we can use this device, and we’re still learning. Exactly. That’s what’s really different about SkinPen. The company consistently does studies to see what else is possible with this device. So we have some European friends right now that are approved to do treatments for hypopigmentation, vitiligo, which is absolutely wild. There’s very few things that can treat vitiligo. And so this is really exciting stuff. And we keep studying to see what’s possible. So I think that’s one of the biggest differences with SkinPen too is, it’s not just one of those things where you know, our languaging around it is “we’re going to put some holes in your face, and it’s going to create collagen, Bob’s your uncle.” No, well like you want to know what else was possible with this. And there’s lots of little things that happened to the skin, post treatment for a lot of people that are hard to study and to put into a study. So, you know, for myself, I sometimes I used to have really red cheeks, and I don’t have that anymore. So you know, and a lot of people notice after their treatments, they have less reddiness. And that probably has to do with the healing and the growth factor and things like that. It’s not something tangible that we can necessarily study. It’s kind of an off label way of using it. But at some point, maybe we will have a study for something like that. And that’s what I love as a company, it consistently gives us things to, you know, help patients with in terms of studies that, you know, if you’ve got multiple things happening on your skin, we probably can treat a lot of things in one treatment. Yeah, acne scarring? Hyperpigmentation? Oh, you’re a 45 year old with acne scarring? Well, then your fine lines and wrinkles, like the list goes on and on and on.

Uran Berisha  46:16 

Yeah, this is actually my another question. Because, as a, as a clinic as a company, we like to give the maximum possible to a client. Yeah, so the cost of microneedling.  How much is microneedling?  And what are its treatment limits?  I know, we charge under $400 for a treatment.  When we talked when we were setting up, you told me that some places, you know, they charge you know, separate for, let’s say, for the neck or décolletage? I said no. It’s like, if the client is coming here, I want to give them maximum possible for this person. There’s no price difference, because to me, it’s like face and neck and décolletage is the same part. Right? So like, are we able to do like full on that and probably a scar? Or is that too much stimulation? Or where kind of where we should draw the line?

Amber Guerin  47:03 

I love this question. I get this question a lot from practitioners specifically, because our needles can go for 80 minutes on scar tissue. Yeah. So the thought process behind that becomes, can I do this to somebody? There, you know, they’ve got scars, stretch marks, I can do the entire belly. That’ll take me a half hour, the entire face. And I’ve got 10 minutes of needles left. What else can I do? And you know, the thing is, we don’t want the body to have to heal in too many places at the same time. Sure. So the answer to that is certainly you can do face neck and décolleté. And let’s say they’ve got a shoulder scar, or, you know, they want to treat the back of their hands. You’re not throwing the body into this chaotic thing. Heal everywhere. No, not at all. But you would want to break up those bigger areas into two separate treatments to make sure that your body can heal and repair. Yeah, absolutely. So lots of people ask that mostly practitioners, right, because, you know, they understand that the needles will go for a long period. So like what’s possible, but, you know, it’s like anything where it’s too much of a good thing in those kinds of situations. So I would separate it for sure.

Uran Berisha  48:18 

Okay, good to know. You know what, when you have a big heart, you just want to give maximum possible? So it’s like that the same actually the same applies for shockwave too? Yes, yeah. I want to bring those stem cells, I want to bring those growth factors where we need them to go. Exactly. Because if I stimulate an area, let’s say the same amount of stimulation, an area that is like 100% perfect, let’s say, the cells will actually take the road, the path that is least resistant. They will end up there and then they don’t go where you need them to go. So.

Amber Guerin  48:56 

Absolutely. Yeah, that’s a really, really good point too. Your body finds ways to be lazy when it can. Exactly. Conserve the energy. Yeah, it really does. So, you know, I love that question. Because I think that, you know, we do have to remember that this is your body naturally healing itself. And that goes for shockwave too, right. So true. Yeah. If you want to get the best results out of this, we have to be mindful that your body’s doing all the work. Yes. Yeah. Great question, I love it.

Uran Berisha  49:30 

Okay Amber, I think we are coming to an end because with you, we can literally talk 24/7. By that time nobody’s is, is listening. It’s great. If you are looking for some of the best microneedling Edmonton, look no further.  So, Amber, is there anything that I haven’t asked you that I should have asked you, or any questions?

Amber Guerin  49:54 

Not that I can think of? I think you did. We talked about safety, which I think is paramount. We talked about depth for treatment a little bit and the reason why we do the depths we do on each of the major issues that we do. The difference in our needle quality and the differences of SkinPen we talked about. And why you don’t experience things that you see on Instagram. But I think we’ve covered it all. I think so, I think so obviously. There’s nothing left. Yeah.

Uran Berisha  50:28 

Amber, I truly appreciate your time. I thank you very much for coming here to the Unpain Clinic, you know, podcast or whatever you want to call it and just sharing this with people.

Amber Guerin  50:42 

Yeah, you’re great. You were right. It’s just a conversation. I was very nervous.

Uran Berisha  50:47 

No, no, no, no, no, honestly we are, we are the same way here as we are with a client but just when we treat, yes, we are, you know, like, humble, but also like very serious. So yes, yeah. Well I love it. We are like this. Yes. Yeah. Frontend and backend we are the same.

Amber Guerin  51:08 

I love it. So much. It was really a pleasure to be on here and talk to you. Thank you. Thank you guys. I know you’re gonna do amazing work. With the SkinPen and your team is I even told you when you came in and like they’re, they were excellent after their first practice. They were super good. So I think they’re gonna be really, really helpful for a lot of people. Thank you. Yeah. You’re very welcome, you have a great team. Thank you. And you’re wonderful. Yeah. Have a good day. Thank you so much.

Uran Berisha  51:37 

And thank you. You and your puppy.

Amber Guerin  51:43 

He’s been very good actually, I’m suprised. Alright, have a wonderful day. A wonderful week. Stay warm.

Uran Berisha  51:51 

Yes. Yes. Thank you.